Now talking on #PennsylvaniaPrimary

<davewiner> Thanks to @adarg for the reminder

<davewiner> @adamrg

<maslowbeer> ah good fun all tweeps!

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<maslowbeer> there we go

<agessaman> excellent

<GabeW> let the wonkery begin!

* GabeW read davewiner’s tweet as “wankery” and I showed up anyway

<BIGZIPZ> many of us in Britain are shocked at how both candidates conduct themselves, it seems all about smear tactics and personal attacks! meanwhile the

republican candidate is free to travel all over america talking about what he will do while the dems bicker

<davewiner> joe scarborough is a first class dickhead

<agessaman> Time to over-analyze the 2200 votes that have been counted.

<davewiner> gabew, wankery is good too

<davewiner>

<agessaman> BIGZIPZ: we’re shocked and appalled here too

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<davewiner> when joe scarborough comes on I switch to wolf blitzer

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<BIGZIPZ> I swaer the pr people hired in these campaigns could find faults with Mother Terasa and good things to say about Hitler if it was part of their

brief

<davewiner> i’ll even watch a dog food commercial over joe scarborough

<dunnix> Hello all

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<davewiner> i’d watch hitler over scarborough

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<GabeW> man, twitter must be working

<BIGZIPZ> twitter effect

<EricaJoy>

<berryhill> would you watch Fox News over scarborough?

<davewiner> i would watch fox news over scarborough

<agessaman> davewiner: Hitler was evil… but at least he could deliver a line without Scarborough’s smirk…

<GabeW> its sort of tradition now – davewiner calls out an irc channel when the returns start coming in

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<GabeW> on primary nights

<GabeW> I’d watch fox news with the volume set to 0

* dunnix would watch kernel 2.6.25 compile over Scarborough…. in fact he _is_.

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<davewiner> 1 percent of precincts reporting. clinton 60 percent, obama 40 percent

<BIGZIPZ> I take it this Scarborough is some terrible anchorman or something?

<RussB> I had to type that damn channel name in as FF didn’t talk to Pidgin for some reason. Was “vote08″ taken or something?

<GabeW> dunnix: um, I’d watch 2.6.25 compile over *most* tv

<davewiner> no returns from philadelphia yet

<dunnix> =P

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<davewiner> as a new yorker i always had great disdain for philadelphia

<agessaman> BIGZIPZ: he’s just smug, smarmy, and more of a ‘personality’ than a journalist

<davewiner> not tonight

<davewiner> i love philadelphia

<davewiner> we call it “philly”

<maslowbeer> it’s like a virtual tweetup. how fun!

<davewiner> those of us who love philadelphia

<danyork> Thanks for setting up the room, Dave.

<codyh> only when Chris Matthews is on camera am I glad that I don’t get MSNBC in HD.

<davewiner> give me some cheesesteak please

<BIGZIPZ> dave the tweet is linking to ###PennsylvaniaPrimary instead of #PennsylvaniaPrimary for some reason

<davewiner> go phillies!

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<davewiner> oooh

<domesticat> Haven’t had a good cheesesteak in years.

<maslowbeer> the word philly is making me hungry

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<danyork> The URL worked fine for me

<agessaman> Just don’t ask for it with swiss.

<BIGZIPZ> this is in mirc anyway

<EricaJoy> mirc?

<BIGZIPZ> irc client

<EricaJoy> yeah i know

<EricaJoy> just thinking how long its been since i’ve used it

<EricaJoy>

<davewiner> did i fix the irc link?? http://www.scripting.com/stories/2008/04/22/ircForPennsylvaniaPrimary.html

<BIGZIPZ> its no longer free!

<davewiner> best line of the night — bill clinton is not a pip, he’s gladys knight

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<EricaJoy> oh boooooo

<EricaJoy> clinton is the projected winner

<EricaJoy>

<tmanternach> hey all. what channel are people watching? I’m watching CNN

<domesticat> CNN.

<EricaJoy> msnbc for me

* agessaman is shocked… really…

<agessaman> CNN, with commercial breaks spent swearing at FoxNews.

<agessaman> (It’s the closest I get to aerobic exercise on election night.)

<codyh> are you kidding me! MSNBC calling the primary with 3% in?

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<kirkk> didn’t expect a win… really hope that her win is small…. < 10 points would be nice

<BIGZIPZ> we are so used to the impartial bbc news here in england that its a cultural experience watching the Fox channel on cable

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<davewiner> hey they’re making som egood jokes on CNN tonight

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<tmanternach> codyh: Hillary is going to win tonight

<dunnix> only 3% is in?

<codyh> tmanternach: of course, but it’s the margin that’s news.

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<danyork> It’s all about the margin.

<tmanternach> codyh: I know.

<davewiner> Paul Begala is a dickhead, not quite as bad as Joe Scarborough but pretty close.

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<BIGZIPZ> take a look at leo laporte on twit live, with his pipe, bless him

<agessaman> Donna Brazile, however, is very endearing tonight.

<mobile> Which channel is everyone watching?

<codyh> and let’s not forget that a significant number of delegates will be allocated later, not based on raw vote counts.

<tmanternach> davewiner: Paul is awesome! Even thought he is a Hillary supporter

<codyh> by later, i mean in the next 24-36 hrs.

<danyork> mobile: I’m watching CNN Live and MSNBC – both live over the Intenret.

<GabeW> what drives me nuts is that all the so-called democratic party talking heads they have on these networks are actually Clinton shills

<mobile> Also, can Hilary hold a double digit lead?

<danyork> exactly

<RussB> MSNBC.com has conflicting headlines… “too close to call” and “Clinton wins”

<tmanternach> it’s going to be 55 to 45, give or take a point

<RussB> to *early* to call, sorry.

<mobile> Yeah, Tom Brokaw called it a minute ago

<davewiner> CNN: 11 percent of the vote in — it’s 50-50. Oooooh. Hot damn!!

<agessaman> RussB: refresh, looks like they cleaned it up.

<EricaJoy> cnn loves their touch screens

<mobile> And it seems to be holding as the story with HRC at 10% lead

<mobile> MSNBC has 55% HRC and 45% Obama

<tmanternach> davewiner: where is that from? the website say 3% of the vote in

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<agessaman> Blitzer: “This race is going to be competitive.”

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<tmanternach> that 11% number was just in one city

<tmanternach> or county

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<codyh> tom brokaw looks old as hell.

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<agessaman> FN: 53/47 Clinton/Obama

<codyh> is he growing a moustache?

<davewiner> FoxNews projects Pennsylvania for HRC.

<mobile> Interesting number differences

<tmanternach> mobile: there are no differences, people are just confused

<GabeW> i don’t know about in PA, but early numbers here in CA tend towards the older (usually more conservative, though thats a generalization) voter..

<danyork> Now both MSNBC and CNN are showing 56 C and 44 O

<maslowbeer> retweet @nprnewsblog NPR predicts HRC will win PA

<danyork> It’s going to oscillate for a while here, methings.

<GabeW> danyork: ya think?

<GabeW> hah

<mobile> MSNBC just showed 57% for HRC

<mobile> On the old fashion TV screen.

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<maslowbeer> does PA have a caucus delegate count or is it just primary voters?

<tmanternach> just primary

<mobile> primary only

<codyh> but a chunk of the delegates are awarded proportionally based on democratic turnout in congressional districts.

<mobile> Not supers cody

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<mobile> PA’s Superduper delegates will vote with the winner

<agessaman> The pure primary, a system I can respect… as someone who participated in the district caucuses (second tier) in WA state, I have seen the light

about how undemocratic that methodology can be…

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<codyh> mobile: you think they’ll go with raw vote count rather than delegate count?

<danyork> With 5%, it’s back to 53% C, 47% O

<maslowbeer> agessaman, good point, except the caucus system protected the TX vote since it’s an open system and there were many HRC shows in dem primary who

were GOPs trying to swing it. caucus system saved the day there

<mobile> Cody they will go popular vote because Obama’s campaign has pushed the issue of going with the voters.

<danyork> MSNBC showing 52% C 48% O

<agessaman> maslowbeer: true — the first tier caucuses seem to be pretty egalitarian, the second tier was an exercise in excluding people who couldn’t

commit 5+ hours to voting.

<maslowbeer> agessaman, excellent point

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<maslowbeer> davewiner, I emailed the rockridge people asking what was up and why they couldn’t raise $ from some big donors

<mobile> It’s changing by the minute

<mobile> HRC 53%

<maslowbeer> they responded and admitted they perhaps didn’t have “fundraising expertise” but they did go everywhere they knew how

<noaml> nbc calls it for HRC too

<tmanternach> cnn called it for her

<noaml> msnbc rather

<mobile> I seriously doubt that she will deliver the double digit win

<danyork> CNN just called it for her

<tmanternach> that’s all of the big networks

<maslowbeer> how many reporting now?

<noaml> 5%

<danyork> MSNBC is showing 7% in

<GabeW> the flapping margin is seeming to settle a bit around 5-7%

<maslowbeer> that’s like calling a football game off the opening kick

<noaml> CNN calls it for HRC too

<GabeW> but we’re talking about a total of 150,000 votes so far

<agessaman> So, I pose the question they’re asking Russert tonight: what percentage spread does Clinton need to win the big victory?

<dunnix> maslowbeer: =) i like your optimism

<GabeW> thats below the turnout in a midsize city

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<maslowbeer> well they’re computer models are pretty damned accurate, except for the little gore fiasco

<anthropocentric> people still use IRC?

<tmanternach> aggessaman she just needs to win the state, even if it’s just a single % point

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<danyork> anthropocentric: a few, do.

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<maslowbeer> anthropocentric, hell yeah. still the best resource around methinks

<GabeW> ron paul is getting 15% haha

<anthropocentric> is mIRC still the best client?

<kirkk> Think if she wins by less than 10 it will be seen as good for Obama considering not long ago she was polling more than 20 points ahead

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<anthropocentric> …Or is there a newfangled Web 2.0 client like IRC chatr

<agessaman> tmanternach: So getting 49% of the “bitter, gun-clinging” voters to vote for Obama is a loss?

<tmanternach> kirkk: we will see it that way, but the media will see it as a win for her still

<tmanternach> agessaman: yes

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<maslowbeer> is PA an open primary or do you have to be registered to a party?

<kirkk> true… but the media just wants to string this out as long as they can no matter what happens or what the reality is

<danyork> maslowbeer: it’s closed – you have to be registered

<agessaman> tmanternach: statistically I agree, but cutting deeply into a 20% lead is a moral victory for Obama.

<tmanternach> kirkk: of course they do. they are getting millions of viewers, making millions of dollars

<tmanternach> agessaman: I’m with you. but we aren’t CNN/NBC/FOX

<kirkk> yep… good business if you can get it

<maslowbeer> tmanternach, why do you say that? the GOP has already bought the media outright

<agessaman> tmanternach: MSNBC is with us… but they have Keith Olbermann doing reporting tonight, and he actually makes sense, so that’s unsurprising.

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<tmanternach> agessman: they also have Chris Matthews

<agessaman> tmanternach: and Joe “I’m a smug-mofo” Scarborough

<tmanternach> yup

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<maslowbeer> retweet @nprnewsblog: Clinton Needs to Raise Money, Fast, to Continue http://tinyurl.com/4dz8gl

<agessaman> she has 9m COH, Obama has 42m

<agessaman> and her COH is padded by the fact that she has 1m+ in debts unpaid.

<tmanternach> i thought it was 10 million in debts?

<kirkk> and Obamas COH just went up by another $100

<agessaman> oops… apologies, missed the 0

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<agessaman> kirkk: that’s an excellent idea… brb.

<Heathercore> So, is this thing over, and now we’re on to Ind.?

<workingwriter> All depends on how big the margin is.

<tmanternach> if he can keep the margin below 10%, he will be alright

<workingwriter> Russert was saying his sources project anything from 5-12%

<tmanternach> it’s on to indiana anyways

<tmanternach> she won’t give up

<dunnix> whens indiana?

<domesticat> It’s an older, less hot version of the Terminator.

<tmanternach> 5/6 i think

<workingwriter> Indiana May 6

<greggh> HuffPo now has it at 55-45 with 10% in

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<mobile> If HRC comes out of PA with 10% margin she’s still in it.

<greggh> agreed

<agessaman> that’s a gain of 10-15 delegates (max)

<tmanternach> mobile: if HRC comes out of PA with a 1% margin she’s still in it.

<mobile> If she comes out with 5% it’s over.

<workingwriter> Thing is, Hillary has $10 mil in debt, and $9 mil in cash. Barack has $42 mil in cash, <$1 mil in debt

<mobile> tmanternach if she’s only 1% there will be no more money

<agessaman> we need to admit that “in it” is a matter of definition

<kirkk> I think if she lost she’d “still be in it” by her calculations….

<agessaman> She’s “in it” the same way that Huckabee was — the math says otherwise — but she’s welcome to run.

<mobile> I think she’d make a stellar VP

<maslowbeer> jon stewart asked obama if he was concerned hrc would still be campaigning in the general election if he won . . . lol

<greggh> nah, if she lost tonight I have no doubt she would call it quits

<Heathercore> I think she might have to be forceably removed from the race.

<agessaman> Heathercore: I think her husband has been trying — every time she’s ahead, he runs his mouth…

<maslowbeer> rumormill said that gore, dean and carter were going to ask her to step down a couple weeks ago, for the party

<mobile> Why should she be removed when she’s winning contests?

<mobile> That makes no sense.

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<agessaman> After May 6, she would need to win 80% of the delegates to have the lead at the convention.

<domesticat> Because mathematically she can’t pull it out w/o asking superdelegates to vote against the person who won the popular vote?

<maslowbeer> 10% reporting 55/45% H/O according to @nprnewsblog

<mobile> I think people overlook the positives of the nation being transfixed by the Dems race and ignoring McCain.

<tmanternach> how many times can this guy on cnn say “hillaryclinton.com”?

<codyh> mobile: because she’s crapping all over the party.

<mobile> I disagree codyh

<agessaman> mobile: We’re missing some awesome McCain gaffes that aren’t getting reported because of the Dem race

<Heathercore> Is that a positive, mobile. People ignoring McCain? He’s still the Republican nominee…

<mobile> She is clearly still a viable candidate.

<codyh> mobile: as is your right.

<mobile> Heathercore of course giving the Repubs less time to prepare their smear tactic is a positive thing

<mobile> They don’t know who they are running against

<maslowbeer> the rumormill story talked about gore and carter having huge party elder status and carrying a lot of weight

<maslowbeer> wish i could remember where i read it

<mobile> Do they fight on 2 fronts simultaneously?

<greggh> I’m very pessimistic about the general though, I actually believe that a good portion of the 26% of Hill supporters who say they will vote for

McCain, really will. I expect a McCain Presidency.

<mobile> Or do they wait.

<kirkk> mobile… I think HRC has already given the Repubs all the smear tactics they need to use against Obama

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<dunnix> greggh: Do you really think Dem voters will cross the party line, because of obama…. hes a good dem, right?

<mobile> Kirkk the Repubs don’t need any help with smearing

<greggh> dunnix: yes I really do take a lot of them at their word

<mobile> I’ve heard Repubicans say they will vote for Obama, I’ve heard Obama supporters say they will vote of McCain if HRC wins

<mobile> So who knows/

<mobile> ?

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<dunnix> hmm, you think voters crossing the party line is just out of bitterness, and not out of who they think would do a better job? shame

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<mobile> A brokered convention would be bad for the party, but a continuation of this campaign is not. Especially if it is warranted by how voters vote.

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<maslowbeer> and i’ve heard HRC supporters say they will go McBush if Obama wins . . . it’s all over the map

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<dunnix> lol

<kirkk> My wife says she’ll vote for McCain over Obama… which just seems crazy to me… I’d vote for HRC if she’s the nominee but considering how she’s run

this campaign I’d have to do it holding my nose

<mobile> Repubs have said that McCain “betrayed” them on imigration.

<maslowbeer> many Obama supporters are independents so they are unpredictible

<dunnix> maslowbeer: ah that makes sense

<mobile> There are many who will have trouble supporting the opponent of their choice

<greggh> some out of bitterness, and some out of the reasoning that some Clinton supporters are not prepared to move that amount to the left that they think

Obama represents

<mobile> But we need a Dem in office, period

<agessaman> I think it will depend on Obama’s VP selection

<weisen> I think that people may underestimate just how many people would not vote for a black man, even half black, in the anonymity of the voting booth

<mobile> Yes, that’s where McCain will hit Obama

<weisen> I hope that’s not true, but it sounds like it is

<mobile> Too far left

<maslowbeer> IMHO, obama could have been a lot more aggressive talking about iraq == shitty economy which would have put mccain on the defensive during

general even against HRC

<dunnix> Wasn’t obama considering the New Mexican guy for VP running mate?

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<mobile> The winning ticket is Obama/Clinton

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<maslowbeer> mobile, don’t tell that to @davewiner

<weisen> Maybe Clinton/Obama

<codyh> mobile: fat effing chance though, right?

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<davewiner> How about Clinton/Scarborough?

<kirkk> weisen: I’m afraid of that very thing myself… people will say what they think they “should” when asked that question but when nobody is watching

I’m afraid this country is not nearly as open-minded as I’d like to believe it is

<mobile> No not Clinton/Obama

<mobile> Obama/Cinton

<mobile>

<workingwriter> Obama/Clinton won’t happen.

<davewiner> Clinton/Clinton

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<codyh> well, hillary is looking more and more like cheney.

<dunnix> lol

<kogyaru> workingwriter: I completely agree

<mobile> codyh that’s absurd

<kogyaru> she’s oblitered any chances.

<berryhill> How about Obama/Ford

<agessaman> mobile: How would they work that out? “Sorry that I’ve impugned your heritage, church, friends, and choice of words… mind if I take shotgun?”

<kogyaru> um, obliterated.

<mobile> Why do you say it won’t happen? It would be a winner.

<weisen> @kirkk: it came up at dinner Saturday night as reported by the Texan side of my family. Freaked me out.

<mobile> You think Obama doesn’t want to win?

<kirkk> davewiner… a vote for HRC is a vote for a Clinton/Clinton ticket IMHO

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<berryhill> @kirkk: I agree…HRC in the White House makes Bill defacto VP

<mobile> agessaman the rhetoric hasn’t been so out of control that those things couldn’t be worked out. These are professional politicans

<kogyaru> HRC’s margin of victory seems to be getting slimmer

<workingwriter> mobile: Sure he does, so he picks some Southern white guy not named Edwards

<mobile> berryhill that’s McCain spin. Leave that sort of talk to them.

<greggh> I think Obama will make Hillary the VP. It would just be too stupid not to. Like mobile said said, the guy wants to win.

<mobile> workingwriter Which Southern white guy isn’t a Republican?

<kirkk> mobile: Me

<berryhill> mobile: Bill in the White House is not necessarily a bad thing…the Clinton years look better than where we’re at now

<kogyaru> heh. Clinton’s ahead by 75 to 80 percent in coal country. (counties)

<codyh> is there really any chance HRC would take VP?

<mobile> kirkk are you available for Obama’s VP opening?

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<kirkk> I suppose I could make time

<kogyaru> codyh: I personally doubt it

<kirkk> if asked nicely

<greggh> would Hill take VP?… IN A HEARTBEAT

<workingwriter> mobile: Well, if Sam Nunn were a little younger…

<mobile> Sam Nunn?

<mobile> yikes!

<mobile> Exactly greggh

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<mobile> She’s got voters that Obama needs

<workingwriter> Nunn actually endorsed Obama last week. I was floored.

<mobile> I’m hoping for an Obama/Clinton ticket

<davewiner> One thing to be thankful for. Joe Scarborough isn’t on MSNBC smirking right now. I can take Pat Buchannan.

<maslowbeer> AP reports HRC wins at least 28 delegates

<greggh> If she didn’t take VP then she would be gambling that Obama won’t win the general. While I think that’s a good bet. I don’t think she wants to take

that risk

<tmanternach> greggh: you think he would offer it to her?

<mobile> I don’t think McCain could beat an Obama/Clinton ticket

<codyh> mobile: couldn’t agree more.

<agessaman> agreed

<maslowbeer> who’s favored for mccain’s vp nowadays?

<greggh> yup, I think he will see that its his best chance to win

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<kirkk> greggh: I honestly that part of the reason HRC has run the kind of campaign she has is because if she isn’t the nominee she’d rather see McCain win

so she’s a viable candidate in 2012

<kogyaru> yikes

<kogyaru> that’s cynical

<mobile> kirkk that’s absurd

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<maslowbeer> kirkk, valid theory. however by then we’d have WW3 with Iran and probably find some new enemies to invade, like canada and australia or

something

21<mobile>21 maslowbeer I don’t think anyone cares who runs with McCain at the moment.

<mobile> Too busy watching the Dem race.

<tmanternach> did the man on CNN just swear?

<mobile>

<codyh> maslowbeer: recent HRC comments make it sound like she’s not entirely opposed to WW3 with Iran.

<kirkk> Well… those Canadians have been getting a bit uppity

<workingwriter> maslowbeer But Hillary wants to invade Iran, and whoever wins will probably continue threatening Venezuela.

<dunnix> codyh: only if iran nukes israel… which i don’t think will happen

<greggh> kirkk: I don’t disagree with you. But she’s covered both ways. The way she weakened Obama makes it more likely for McCain to win, but it also

pressures Obama into making her VP. I think she’ll take the VP sure thing than continue with the big bet

<maslowbeer> perhaps we could declare war on another galaxy or something. that would be cool

<mobile> codyh that’s the worst kind of Republican spin

<codyh> mobile: you caught me.

<maslowbeer> maybe bush is lord xenu

<mobile> She said that the US would support Israel if Iran took action against them.

<kirkk> I agree… it’s cynical… wish I didn’t feel that was as I was a big supporter or both Clintons in the past… but the things they’ve said and done

in this campaign have left me feeling that way

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<codyh> i just resent her militaristic pandering.

<agessaman> she has since clarified that statement and reaffirmed it

<dunnix> maslowbeer: I vote Andromeda with a name like that… its asking for it.

<mobile> Those statements are not pandering

<kogyaru> “obliterate” is a heavy-duty word

<agessaman> It strikes me as crazy to declare mutual defense sans treaty by presidential decree.

<maslowbeer> workingwriter, will obama is doing diplomacy a priori which is one of his foreign policy hallmarks IMO

<mobile> It’s a signal to Iran that a Dem president doesn’t mean we don’t use force when an Ally is threaten.

<maslowbeer> s/will/well

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<agessaman> I would hope that a Dem President would consider dismantling some of the powers that the Bush Whitehouse has inappropriately claimed.

<kogyaru> obama’s phrase for HRC’s comment was “saber-rattling”

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<kogyaru> and I agree on that one

<mobile> Spin, spin, spin

<kogyaru> agessaman: completely unlikely

<workingwriter> maslowbeer: Yes, but oil tends to make people crazy.

<kogyaru> a Dem prez won’t engage in “signing statements”, though, I’m pretty sure

<kirkk> agessaman: Amen!

<mobile> The Iran threat to Israel isn’t about oil.

<maslowbeer> i think a trillion $ thrown at alt energy R&D could accelerate things quite a bit

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<agessaman> kogyaru: indeed. Signing statements == big problem.

<greggh> to be fair to Hillary, the question put to her was about what would happen if Iran launched a NUCLEAR attack on Israel. I think it was entirely

appropriate for here to say what she said.

<workingwriter> maslowbeer: Believe it when I see it!

<kirkk> though I’m afraid that power is like a new tax… once you give it to a politician it’s hard to get it back

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<mobile> That’s one area that Clinton has a good stake in the ground. Green industry. I think Obama would like to add that to his policy position too.

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<workingwriter> Exit poll: only 53% of HRC supporters would vote for Obama in general.

<mobile> ^5 greggh

<maslowbeer> mobile, i think he has stated that as a policy position

<kogyaru> greggh: retalitating with nukes, in any circumstances, is horricially bad and would plunge the entire Earth in serious meterological havoc for a

few years.

<kogyaru> so, pandering to nuke scenarios is just bad policy

<mobile> He hasn’t talked about it as much or before HRC did.

<mobile> But again, the winning ticket is Obama/Clinton

<agessaman> One of my fears with Clinton is that she tolerates the Washington DC status quo — lobbyists, earmarks, and partisan infighting. Why not a

“signing statement” to go with that? Maybe some “national security” through invasion of privacy?

<mobile> Would make many things possible for the Dem party and if he wants to unify the party that would do the job.

<kogyaru> I’ll tell you one thing if any Dem prez engages in signing practices

<greggh> kogyaru: that’s really nice, and yeah no doubt nukes are very bad for the environment. But making it clear to your enemies at every opportunity that

will obliterate them if they use nukes is very good for the planet.

<kogyaru> a third party would once again be seriously considered

<kogyaru> s/signing practices/signing statements/

<kogyaru> greggh” what’s really nice?

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<kogyaru> (sorry, typo time)

<blogometer> Hello Adam.

<blogometer> @bigeasy

<maslowbeer> agessaman, i tend to agree with you on that re HRC status quo

<greggh> kogyaru: I was reponding to your comment about responding with nukes

<kogyaru> greggh: saying “that’s very nice” is not very nice when countering someone else’s argument.

<kogyaru> anyway

<mobile> Who said she used the word obliterate?

<agessaman> maslowbeer: I certainly submit that she would be superior to Bush… the question is how far away do we need to run to avoid the stench?

<mobile> She said we would “respond in force.”

<greggh> ok… then scratch the “very nice” part of what I said.

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<kogyaru> I won’t pretend to know anything about nuclear diplomacy, but man, it’s frightening, and I wish politicians understood the full weight of what

they’re conveying when they say “obliterate”

<maslowbeer> agessaman, agreed. yet my coffee cup collecting mold on my desk would be better than bush, so that’s not saying much

<greggh> mobile: she did use the word obliterate, and I think it was well used given the context

<kogyaru> we’ve had two generations of abject fear of nuclear fallout.

<mobile> greggh do you have the full quote?

<agessaman> maslowbeer: The coffee cup will probably receive more censure than Bush, unfortunately.

<greggh> mobile: but I’ll look for it

<kirkk> maslowbeer… let’s be honest now… the mold on that cup would be better than bush… but it’s kind of you to give him that much credit

<greggh> mobile: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2094904347351773345

<kogyaru> hm, the margin of victory looking like 8% so far

<mobile> kogyaru it’s going to be a few hours before we’ll know

<blogometer> kogyaru Link?

<kogyaru> front page of NY Times

<workingwriter> Just jumped to 55-45 with 41% in

<kogyaru> mobile: see above, and yeah, I agree

<kogyaru> if she wins by more than 15 percent, does she take all delegates?

<maslowbeer> kirkk, i’m feeling particularly generous

<agessaman> kogyaru: no, but the percentage increases dramatically.

<mobile> And it makes it easier for her to take PA superdupers.

<workingwriter> TVNewser says candidate speeches at 10PM Eastern

<mobile> All those in Congress have abstained until after the PA election results are in.

<maslowbeer> agessaman, what’s your twitter handle?

<kogyaru> they’re not waiting until closer to the convention?

<agessaman> maslowbeer: @adamrg

<mobile> No kogyaru they will declare after the PA results

<workingwriter> kogyaru: Dean keeps saying he wants all Supers to decide by June 3 (last primary)

<agessaman> I always forget to change my nick to match twitter when I get in these channels.

<kirkk> thanks agessaman… following now

<mobile> Yeah, no one seems to be listening to Dean

<dunnix> good luck guys… off to dinner, I’ll check back later

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<workingwriter> CNN: Back to 54-46, 45% in

<maslowbeer> agessaman, cool. following

* FARTKN0CKER is now known as SuckMyBalls

<kogyaru> for a lot of people, mccain gets the vote if either obama or clinton wins

<kogyaru> what I don’t understand is this

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<agessaman> maslowbeer kirkk same, thanks!

<kogyaru> mccain wants to be in Iraq forever

<kogyaru> isn’t this country dead tired of the war?

<greggh> it’s gonna be somewhere between 7%

<mobile> kogyaru which is why they should join on a ticket with Clinton as VP

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<kogyaru> (if this country’s dead tired of the war, why would they vote for a guy who wants to prolong the pain?)

<greggh> she’s not going to reach that psychologically important 10%

<kirkk> kogyaru… I believe it is… but I though that in 2004 also… don’t underestimate the conservative/religous groups ability to bring out voters

<mobile> It would be easier if it was either 10% or 5%

<maslowbeer> 33% reporting, 8 basis points apart

<kogyaru> yeah. I won’t forget 2004, either.

<mobile> The right is very unhappy with the Repub party. And so are conversatives.

<maslowbeer> retweet @nprnewsblog: clinton on her way to PA primary party

<workingwriter> kirkk: But the Religious Right isn’t going to turn out.

<kogyaru> my own mother plans to vote for mccain, even though she hates the war

<kogyaru> makes no sense

<danyork> maslowbeer: MSNBC now showing 47% in with 54% C, 46% O

<mobile> Interesting how the numbers move

<kirkk> workingwriter… we’ve though that before but don’t count on it… they are very good at getting people to the polls when it counts…

<mobile> The media will be thrilled to see it go on.

<kogyaru> yes, they will

<mobile> The Dems are dominating the airwaves so long as it continues

<mobile> McCain isn’t interesting even when he travels to Iraq

<kirkk> and there is a truly visceral hatred among the right to HRC… believe me… I grew up with them and work with them… they’ve been “warning” people

since Bill was President that HRC wanted to be President and they will mobilize if they see that happening

<mobile> Or jumps up and down to get attention.

<mobile> The only way HRC beats Obama is with a brokered convention.

<kogyaru> agree

<maslowbeer> kirkk, i can second that sentiment here in TX, though inner loop houston is very dem. suburbs are VERY gop

<mobile> But the real elephant in the room is MI and FL pre convention convention.

<agessaman> and a brokered convention will likely result in an Obama delegate walkout

<mobile> A brokered convention will mean a Clinton win

<maslowbeer> kirkk, i would love to take a page from the gop playbook, and build a wall around houston to keep the suburbanite “illegal” jackasses out of my

city

<greggh> I think the only way Clinton beats Obama is if Obama self destructs. I really think its out of Hillary’s control now. Only Obama can lose it at this

point.

<workingwriter> Obama on CNN: Moral victory at 45%.

<danyork> workingwriter: This is old tape (of Obama) earlier today.

<mobile> Doncha just love the spin, spin, spin

<maslowbeer> retweet @davewiner: No votes in yet from Philadelphia or suburbs. That’s where Obama is strong.

* SuckMyBalls is now known as ObamaSucksBalls

<maslowbeer> great we have a jackass troll present

<mobile> Obama also said today that he wasn’t in PA to lose, he said, “I’m looking for 50 +1″

<workingwriter> kirkk: Sorry, had to step away for a minute. But I’m not at all convinced that anyone in the fundamentalist camp thinks McCain is their guy.

<kirkk> maslowbeer… know exactly how you feel… the Dems have never been able to play gutterball the way the Repubs have… they really have it down to an

art…

<kogyaru> maslowbeer: philly has 76% of vites in, per NYT front page

<kogyaru> er, votes.

<mobile> ignore it maslowbeer

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<maslowbeer> heh

<workingwriter> It’s true that they felt the same about Bush in 2000, but Rove persuaded them. McCain doesn’t have anyone to pull them aboard.

<kirkk> workingwriter… agreed… they’re not happy about McCain… but if he’s going up against HRC believe me… they’ll be able to mobilize huge numbers

to get out and vote for him

<maslowbeer> workingwriter, I thought he had rove?

<maslowbeer> workingwriter, in the wings anyway

<kogyaru> rove’s name is mud

<maslowbeer> kogyaru, and he’s very good at slinging it

<kogyaru> point

<mobile> Okay. Off to watch twitter now.

<workingwriter> maslowbeer: Talk about bad blood, I don’t see Rove getting active in this campaign in any fashion.

<workingwriter> Could be wrong though.

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<workingwriter> Hillary about to speak

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<greggh> workingwriter: the evangelical right might get a little worked up over defeating a lefty elitist. I think you will see the “bitter” comment getting

a lot more play than the Rev Wright thing by the Repubs in the general.

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<kogyaru> or “clinging”

<workingwriter> greggh: Yeah, I love it when the Repubs defend the “working man”

<maslowbeer> what exactly is the evangelical block in terms of %?

<kogyaru> fifteen, twenty percent?

<maslowbeer> sheesh

<kogyaru> wild-assed guess

<maslowbeer> that’s an indictment right there IMHO

<kogyaru> it’s a swing vote

<workingwriter> Keep in mind that “evangelicals” and “fundamentalists” are somewhat different.

<maslowbeer> true

<kogyaru> what’s the difference?

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<greggh> workingwriter: we all know that for the repubs it always about defending the praying and hunting man. I think Obama has made it easier for that to

be even more effective this go around.

<maslowbeer> i know some swinging episcopalians

<workingwriter> A lot of evangelicals are looking at global warming as more important than who marries who

<maslowbeer> then i guess i’ll rephrase my Q: what is fundie block in %?

<maslowbeer> you know, flat earth people and crap

<maslowbeer> yeah every episcopalian i know is an obama supporter, but that’s inside city limits so who knows

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<kogyaru> “Political scientist Kevin Phillips… estimates that 55 percent of Bush voters in 2004 believed in the coming of Armageddon”

<kogyaru> paha

<workingwriter> greggh: I think they’ll paint O as elitist in public, but press the race button hard in private.

<mib_sgah9w> wut

<mib_sgah9w> lol

<maslowbeer> kogyaru, well i believed it too, with him elected.

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<kogyaru> so, given 50% (+/- 1% ) of America voted for Bush in 2004

<workingwriter> …and here she comes…

<kogyaru> 55% of that number… believe life started in 4004 BC

<workingwriter> They’re playing some kind of funk tune to bring her on. I don’t know it.

<kogyaru> or am I confusing evangelists with fundamentalists?

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<kogyaru> evangelists believe in armageddon, and fundamentalists also believe dinosaurs are baloney?

<kirkk> If someone is more worried about global warming than who marries who then they are not an evangelical… I grew up with/among these people… Repub

pols put same-sex marriage on ballots just to bring out these people… that issue and the votes it brought out was a huge benefit to Bush in 2004

<maslowbeer> kogyaru, that’s fundies who think some white bearded dude created light a couple years ago

<kogyaru> okay, just getting my crackpots straight

<workingwriter> kogyaru: That’s a pretty good definition of fundies.

<agessaman> Ooh… Hillary speaks!

<workingwriter> kogyaru: Fundies think humans lived alongside dinosaurs

* dw_ watching from the uk

<kogyaru> (for the record, I’ve got religious friends, but they’re relatively sane)

<dw_> how bad is it that she’s broke?

<agessaman> -700k

<dw_> i dont understand your crazy fundraising rules

<agessaman> er… 1.3m — 9m COH, 10.3m debt

<workingwriter> dw_: That depends on who she can persuade to give her money

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<kogyaru> this “broke” thing is hard to gauge; is it measuring campaign or personal funds?

<agessaman> campaign

<dw_> campaign funds, no?

<kogyaru> didn’t perot use like 100 million bucks from his personal funds?

<agessaman> She could certainly write herself another cheque.

* maslowbeer thinks bill should endorse obama now and get it over with

<kirkk> I think that most religious people are relatively sane… not correct, but sane… but true “evangelicals/fundamentalists”… man… they’re just a

whole ‘nother level of crazy

<workingwriter> But she can contribute as much of her own money (and Bill’s) as she wants.

<agessaman> workingwriter: But every 5 million dollar contribution distances her a little more from the blue collar voters she needs so badly.

<maslowbeer> how do the matching rules from the public election $ work? i’m fuzzy on that

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<dw_> ha, “…promise of america” (crowd weekheartedly woos)

<kogyaru> ah, Perot spent $60MM of his own money in 1992

<workingwriter> agessaman: Well yes, but the blue collar unions are pretty much split between HRC and Obama.

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<maslowbeer> kogyaru, damn that’s a couple bucks

<workingwriter> Plus, Obama raises $1 million A DAY

<kogyaru> in 1996, Perot accepted the $29MM fed funds and corresponding limits

<maslowbeer> $40MM went to buy posterboard i think

<kogyaru> and $20MM to buy elevator shoes?

<maslowbeer> has perot endorsed anyone or hinted?

<workingwriter> maslowbeer: Neither Clinton nor Obama take public funding in the primaries.

<kirkk> My wife… the one who will vote for McCain if HRC isn’t the nominee… voted for Perot… should I be worried?

<maslowbeer> talk about his nafta sucking sound and what not?

<maslowbeer> workingwriter, gotcha

<agessaman> Someone needs to tell Clinton that “massive” is a measure of size, not quantity

<danyork> There’s the website mention!

<workingwriter> Now Hillary’s supporters chant “Yes we can!” ???

<agessaman> workingwriter: “Yes She Can”

<maslowbeer> someone issue a cease and desist on that

<danyork> workingwriter: “Yes She Can”

<workingwriter> OK

<agessaman> because evidently, by electing Clinton they get out of any personal responsibility to do anything.

<danyork> but the “She” versus “We” is an interesting difference

<andreslucero> howdy y’all. where’s a good place to watch online tonight?

<maslowbeer> agessaman, right. exactamundo . . . it seems HRC supporters don’t get that nuance, which is why perhaps they’re HRC supporters to begin with

<workingwriter> andreslucero: Twitter @VotePA and just about anywhere

<danyork> andreslucero: CNN Live is streaming: http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream1

<kirkk> good catch there… interesting…

<agessaman> maslowbeer: Exactly. If they were any less nuanced, they’d be republicans.

<maslowbeer> gop: “Tell us what to think.” HRC: “go do something” Obama: “it’s all our jobs to get to work.”

<andreslucero> thanks!

<workingwriter> maslowbeer: That’s the community organizer in Obama talking. Best thing about him.

<agessaman> I’m just glad she didn’t mention “green collar” jobs…

<agessaman> every time someone mentions “green collar” jobs, I try to figure out where that fits on the white/blue scale.

<dw_> did she just suggest she’ll cure cancer!?

<maslowbeer> retweet @technosailor another reason to dislike HRC. She just made my Twhirl crash

<GabeW> maslowbeer: yes, but be careful – obama can do that too

<workingwriter> No, just “attack cancer” and all those other things.

<greggh> I hope she’s not making up this story

<greggh> because now they’ll check

<GabeW> i’m looking forward to an amazing obama speech

<agessaman> greggh: did it mention snipers, or uninsured pregnant women?

<GabeW> remember his new hampshire speech?

<GabeW> after a loss

<workingwriter> agessaman: Soldier asks her to “keep fighting for us”

<agessaman> GabeW: I predicted earlier that Obama would lay down a barn burner tonight — he’s had six weeks to write a killer “we lost, but…” speech.

<greggh> I get a little nervous now everytime I hear Hillary talking about dangerous missions

<GabeW> agessaman: yah, he’s overdue for amazing us

<workingwriter> Hi GabeW! Yeah, I think you’re right.

<GabeW> though the philly race speech was one for the history books

<agessaman> GabeW: agreed

<andreslucero> any hope left that obama’s numbers will improve after Philly is counted?

<agessaman> Yes

<agessaman> TPM reports: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/190699.php

<workingwriter> 70% in now (ABCNews.com), still 54-46

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<agessaman> Did Hillary Clinton just repurpose someone’s wedding vows for those “might get knocked down… but if you stay with me…” lines?

<maslowbeer> pretty constant at 8 basis points the whole way it seems

<kogyaru> interesting

<workingwriter> “Live by the power of our ideals again” ?!?!?

<kogyaru> I’m personally betting on Clinton not conceding until the convention

<agessaman> Is Clinton a Ford?

<agessaman> She’s playing the song from the commercials

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<joshua-> Hi, everyone. Sorry I’m late!

<joshua-> Have I missed anything important?

<kogyaru> just a lot of wonkery

<workingwriter> We’re just having fun. HRC wins, apparently by about 8 points.

<GabeW> which is to say, she loses

<workingwriter> Obama about to speak, we’re about to kibitz

<joshua-> OUCH.

<joshua-> I was hoping for a squeaker to put an end to this.

<maslowbeer> is he streaming anywhere?

<berryhill> msnbc is streaming live

<workingwriter> cnn.com says they’re still “awaiting obama”

<GabeW> aren’t we all?

<workingwriter> Probably didn’t want a lot of repetition of “the networks all switched from HRC when Obama came on.”

<kogyaru> got a link to the MSNBC streaming video?

<joshua-> I actually would like a repetition of that, myslef.

<berryhill> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22886841#22886841

<kogyaru> thank you!

<greggh> If she doesn’t win Indiana BIG, forget about the Kitchen sink, she’ll throw in the toilet bowl. Because then all that’s left is to damage Obama as

much as possible, and I think she’s prepared to do that.

<berryhill> CNN website shows Obama won Philly 65% to 35% with 97% of Philly reporting so 8 point spread probably stand

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<berryhill> *stands

<workingwriter> and CNN’s switched to the Obama rally. Somebody’s talking about health care

<Ben_> so is irc the new twitter?

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<berryhill> no…twitter is the new irc

<dw_> Ben_: only for the last 20 years

<Ben_> tell me about it

<workingwriter> Well, twitter does seem to be holding up well tonight.

<Ben_> here’s something: I’m from New Zealand but I’m tracking the campaign closely. I’m very interested.

<Ben_> BUT I’m getting pretty bored with the H&O show

<kogyaru> if you type //info (depending on your IRC client) you’ll get a snootful of the IRC history text

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<greggh> a few modifications to your standard IRC server and viola… you have a great open source Twitter replacement.

<danyork> Watching CNN’s coverage of Obama’s headquarters… someone is speaking but there is no overlay saying who it is.

<danyork> Perhaps the governor of Indiana?

* dw_ heard what twitter was, and has since never even looked at it. buzz-infested NIH

<kogyaru> greggh: except I have occasion to type more than 140 characters on IRC

<workingwriter> Now they post it–he’s the mayor of Evansville, IN

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<kogyaru> but, yeah, you could cap it at that.

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<workingwriter> Jonathan Weinzappel

<Ben_> turner broadcasting plugin!? wtf?

<workingwriter> Ben_ yeah, it sucks! And no Linux client (surprise)

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<agessaman> wow, that was sweet: CNN went to commercial and faded right back in.

<andreslucero> oddly, i’ve had to install it on windows machines but not on macs

<andreslucero> the turner plugin, that is

<kogyaru> what’s the video format used by the turner plugin?

<kogyaru> can’t be completely proprietary.

<andreslucero> i think it’s a rebranded wmv player

<kogyaru> unless it’s spiked with DRM, I guess.

<kogyaru> ah

<workingwriter> …and Barack works the crowd with “This is our country”

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<maslowbeer> obama now streaming on msnbc.com – delayed?

<Ben_> CNN LIVE Video is not available in your geographic location

<workingwriter> …in the background. Damn Chevy ad.

<Ben_> AND the TBS plugin crashes my firefox

<maslowbeer> he’s just starting on msnbc.com

<andreslucero> ben_ where are you???

<Ben_> go CNN

<Ben_> New Zealand

<agessaman> workingwriter: same song at both rallies… must be a rustbelt thing. Although they did say that Mellencamp was actually at the Obama rally.

<Ben_> obviously we don’t matter

<greggh> I’ve been reading Dave Winer, Steve Gillmor, Robert Scoble, etc… for a while now because I’m very interested in social networking and “web 2.0″

but I’ve been consistently disappointed that all of the web 2.0 pundits hardly talk about free software.

<andreslucero> lame. try msnbc.com

<workingwriter> Ben_: try MSNBC: javascript:vPlayer(’22886841′,’ce6d575d-6e6a-40fd-b2d1-350347534dd7′)

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<greggh> I think they all have a big blind spot to Free software, open source, and Linux.

<Ben_> ooh I see a toothbrush ad

<workingwriter> Excuse me: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22886841#22886841

<kogyaru> isn’t Dave’s software often freely distributed?

<agessaman> are we talking Free or free?

<Ben_> yay I can actually see Obama

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<Ben_> we care about him here in NZ believe it or not

<dw_> Ben_: if you get bbc news 24, its on there too

<agessaman> Ben_: glad to hear it

<dw_> (i assume at least australia has it)

<greggh> I just never hear any of them get excited by whats happeng in the free software world, and where free software is going to fit in the web in the

future.

<greggh> agessaman: I’m talking “free” as in “free speech”.

<dw_> greggh: uncle hick and his 8 year old wife don’t care about free software

<kogyaru> don’t forget cousin billybob

<agessaman> greggh: I think part of what you are seeing is that for some people software is just a tool, for some people it is an ideology.

<dw_> <BZZZT> rhetoric alarm!

<andreslucero> most people i talk to don’t know anything else exists

<kogyaru> so, yeah, 8 percent margin

<andreslucero> they use whatever software is on the computer when it came from the dell factory

<kogyaru> andreslucero: don’t know anything else besides opensource exists?

<workingwriter> greggh: Keep in mind that all this Web 2.0 stuff runs on free (speech) software.

<kogyaru> ahh

<Ben_> so how many delegates does H get over O? 3?

<agessaman> about 20 (ish) in PA

<Ben_> oh ok

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<agessaman> The math works out that she needs to win 80% of the delegates through June 3 to take the lead

<workingwriter> The “Web 2.0″ phrase came out of Tim O’Reilly, the leading publisher of free software books

<agessaman> And more like 90% in the states she’ll win.

<Ben_> not a chance

<workingwriter> …though definitely not free as in beer

<Ben_> I don’t get why she is thrashing a dead horse

<agessaman> Ben_: like a snowball in hell

<kogyaru> opensource is the move for the underpinnings (SDKs, core toolkits)

<agessaman> Note that Obama is brushing Clinton off like a speck of lint (“Congrats… now moving on…”) and going after McBush.

<andreslucero> i think the real shift toward supporting linux will come in 10 years when developing countries get online in great numbers.

<Ben_> having just watched charlie wilson, I’m reminded that someone needs a better plan than just “we need to leave”

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<maslowbeer> agessaman, yes now he’s going the aggressive route. he needs to stay there

<andreslucero> people who can’t afford $600 for an OS and word processor

<kogyaru> andreslucero: good point. the gestation period is measured in two decades, it appears, for Linux

<Ben_> go aggrobama

<andreslucero> he’s going after mccain, good move

<greggh> goodnite all

<agessaman> maslowbeer: aggressive against policies and programs — not against McCain personally.

<andreslucero> g’night greggh

<agessaman> That’s how he’s keeping it classy

<workingwriter> greggh: Pleasure to meet you

<agessaman> greggh: g’night, it’s been fun

<maslowbeer> agessaman, which is how he has been all along and is still a good tact imo

<greggh> yup, it was fun talking politics and tech while keeping civilized the whole time

<andreslucero> haha, i like the grin on his face when they started chanting

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<agessaman> maslowbeer: Agreed, not that it’ll stop me from pointing out that McCain divorced his tragically disfigured first wife — who waiting through his

time as a POW for him — to marry a richer woman who he was cheating with… but you all know that story.

<Ben_> jesus this guy actually sounds like he can change something

<Ben_> first time I’ve really watched him

<kogyaru> he’s got charisma

<andreslucero> ben_ you should check out some of his past speeches on youtube

<kogyaru> and diplomatic skills

<agessaman> Ben_: I recommend his speech on race

<workingwriter> Of course, it’s not “lobbyists” that are the problem–it’s the corporations they work for!

<andreslucero> specifically “a more perfect union”

<Ben_> I’ve read the quotes, but not watched

<Ben_> but isn’t he walking a dangerous line going against lobbyists?

<Ben_> it needs to happen, but how realistic is it.

<Ben_> looking from the outside it feels like US politics is fundamentally broken

<agessaman> Not really… the power they wield is dollars — and he’s pulling in more than 1m a day in small donations.

<kogyaru> aren’t most countries’ politics broken?

<andreslucero> well, he’s gotten this far on public fundraising

<John_Norris> Jon Stewart had Obama read a few random lines and instill them with hope…he did a good job with it.

<kogyaru> nice, john

<maslowbeer> Ben_, being beholden to big $ is part of the root cause of broken politics.

<maslowbeer> Ben_, with his tact, he won’t owe anyone any favors and can really do something for a change

<Ben_> agreed, but there is a huge vested interest in NOT letting him do it

<Ben_> entire industries

<John_Norris> Clip up at ComedyCentral

<andreslucero> just me, or is that larry david standing behind him on the right?

<agessaman> Ben_: luckily, those industries vote Republican

<kogyaru> maslowbeer: it’s been a while, but I thought I’d read he was beholden to some agrarian interests such as Archer Daniels Midland

<kogyaru> s/I thought//

<agessaman> Ben_: and they are siding with a very unpopular war, and an unmanaged economy

<workingwriter> agessaman: But how “small donations” are counted is part of the problem. How many people can cough up $100 for a campaign?

<kogyaru> he receives corporate funds, so I think this argument is going to be a relative one

<Ben_> *very* unpopular? isn’t it 50/50?

<agessaman> workingwriter: I’m a public school teacher and I’ve done that.

<Ben_> that’s what really pisses me off

<maslowbeer> Ben_, that’s what I love about him is he had the balls to take the huge gamble and bet on american people and grassroots fund raising, and he’s

won the lottery at it

<kogyaru> ben: what pisses you off?

<Ben_> 50% of the US seems to like the war in iraq. wttf is up with that?

<kogyaru> ah, that. I don’t believe that number.

<workingwriter> Ben_: No, it’s about 70% against the war right now.

<kogyaru> I think it’s really down to about 20 or 25%.

<maslowbeer> Ben_, that’s not true. that’s part of the gop spin machine working its magic

<kogyaru> yeah, close.

<agessaman> Ben_: Bush’s approval rating is 69% against — the highest since Gallup started keeping approval ratings in 1932

<Ben_> fair enough

<agessaman> 28% for, only 3% indifferent

<kogyaru> don’t conflate the numbers against the chimp with the ones against the war, though

<maslowbeer> Ben_, you can believe most of us are pretty pissed off

<Ben_> I was referring to the dem/gop split

<Ben_> which is fundamentally pro/anti “let’s go and fuck up other countries”

<berryhill> The spread has gone up to 10% with 84% reporting

<maslowbeer> Ben_, many gop voters against war believe me

<andreslucero> nooooo

<GabeW> 3 delegates net gain

<GabeW> HAHAHAH

<GabeW> pyrrhic victory if there ever was one

<John_Norris> 64% think the war is not in the US interest

<John_Norris> http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

<andreslucero> still not good

<Ben_> no? isn’t mccain keen on intervention and continuing in iraq?

<berryhill> The CNN delegate count isn’t counting the primary delegates yet

<agessaman> 32% of *republicans* disapprove of Bush

<berryhill> 10% would be a psychological win for HRC…she gets to say she won by double digits

<andreslucero> i notice barack didn’t mention pennsylvania at all

<kogyaru> mccain is for iraq war forever

<danyork> andreslucero: he did at the beginning, congratulating Clinton

<Ben_> but yeah, again, from an outside view:

<andreslucero> berryhill – exactly, it’s just another reason for her to continue her campaign

<Ben_> I really cannot understand in the slightest why HRC is carrying on

<Ben_> it’s bad for dems, bad for her

<andreslucero> ah, i guess i missed it

<Ben_> basically she’s saying “gee I hope we can lobby superdels hard enough to piss off the majority of dems”

<danyork> NY Times (who endorsed Clinton) has opinion piece out – “The Low Road to Victory” -

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/opinion/23wed1.html?ref=opinion

<agessaman> Ben_: She’s hoping Obama falls on his face.

<Ben_> how is that going to happen?

<maslowbeer> danyork, i thought nyt endorsed obama? or am i just smoking something

<andreslucero> her campaign funds are beyond drained, she can’t hang on forever

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<danyork> hmmm… I *thought* they endorsed Clinton

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<John_Norris> Kos sez “The NY Times editorial board, which remember endorsed Clinton:”

<danyork> http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/25/nytimes.endorses/index.html

<maslowbeer> John_Norris, ah. guess i’ll put down ganga bowl

<workingwriter> agessaman: Fair, but you’re interested in this stuff. I’d like to see a breakdown of where all this money is coming from. I was checking at

publicintegrity.org, but they haven’t issued any reports yet.

<John_Norris> hee hee

<agessaman> workingwriter: The Obama campaign was suggesting that their average donation was 170 dollars, and they’ve raised over 225m dollars

<workingwriter> Averages can be deceiving, of course.

<workingwriter> Stepping away from the machine for a few, but I’ll probably be back.

<andreslucero> oy, abother two weeks until the next primaries

<andreslucero> going to bed, see y’all next time

<Ben_> Isn’t it far too simplistic to compare H vs O stats to Either vs Mccain?

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<Ben_> It seems to be H’s tactic: I beat Obama in blue collar states, so I’ll beat Mccain in the same

<agessaman> http://www.electoral-vote.com/ — the map on this page is particularly instructive on how effective that strategy will be

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<maslowbeer> AP giving 38/24 delegates for HRC/Obama for PA with 85% reporting

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<dloo> Alright… why does twitter say to join here? what did i miss?

<maslowbeer> hah just said it, “another win for cable television tonight.”

<dw_> dloo: who’s twitter?

<dw_> whose twitter? hmm

<dw_> nope

<dloo> maslowbeer’s twitter feed

<Ben_> you missed not much

<maslowbeer> dloo, i’ll be posting whole chat log to my blog

<John_Norris> thx for the chat…until next time!

<maslowbeer> John_Norris, you bet!

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